Chat about maps for CS Tournament.

[Muppet]

I think we should keep it to dust, dust2 and aztec. Anything else might be getting a little complicated for a 3v3 tournament if we're taking this seriously.

[gor]

I think we should keep it to dust, dust2 and aztec. Anything else might be getting a little complicated for a 3v3 tournament if we're taking this seriously.

Thats the three I voted. The easlier and most familiar maps for a 3on3 right there.

[Octavion]

How come Fyndir and Strings have both voted for de_cpl_mill but it only has 1 vote registered?

Also I agree with Stuart and Gor.

[Fyndir]

How come Fyndir and Strings have both voted for de_cpl_mill but it only has 1 vote registered?

Strings changed his vote, it seems to be a bug where it doesn't change the names.

[Sid]

I think we should keep it to dust, dust2 and aztec. Anything else might be getting a little complicated for a 3v3 tournament if we're taking this seriously.

I agree (except I went for cbble over dust :)), but there was a lot of debate about it on IRC so I thought I best be diplomatic and make a poll. Maps like train would be an absolute nightmare for a 3v3.

[Sideshow]

Compared to the turkey shoot of Dust?

[Sid]

Compared to the turkey shoot of Dust?

Sorry I don't really understand what you mean.

My point was maps like inferno, train, and to an extent nuke, are too complex to be defended by a CT team of 3. The Ts could be in the site and planting before even being seen, pretty much.

Dust is an ideal 3v3 map.

[TK-Maximus]

I'm going to assume that my earlier post got deleted due to an error, and not a trigger happy mod.

I'm up for it, have no team and am a Trigger happy shotgun weilding Team Killer.

I have not voted for a map, as office is not listed.

[Sid]

I'm going to assume that my earlier post got deleted due to an error, and not a trigger happy mod.

I'm up for it, have no team and am a Trigger happy shotgun weilding Team Killer.

I have not voted for a map, as office is not listed.

Hey, yeah, sorry I was deleting "sign me up" posts after the person had been added to the list, just to keep the thread relatively clutter free. Hostage maps aren't really suitable for matches, to be honest. If you feel that strongly, I'll add an option? :wink:

[TK-Maximus]

Most of them, yeah they aren't really suitable, but I would think that Assault and Office are small enough that they would work.

So yeah, stick em up as options, on the basis that there are reservations that they may be unsuitable, and see what peopl think.

And Pit, not Pitt. ;)

[Sid]

And Pit, not Pitt. ;)

That wasn't me, but I'll change it. :)

[Muppet]

Sorry I don't really understand what you mean.


I think he's saying dust can be easily held as CT - which i guess is true. But it's different when you get a team who know how to play it properly.

Maybe if more people think dust is too one sided for a fair match we should test it? Or just agree on another map..

[Strings]

Dust is kinda boring for any kind of match I find. Will play most maps except Dust and hostage maps.

[Sid]

Will play most maps except Dust and hostage maps.

Don't worry, there's no way the tournament will be holding any matches on a hostage map. I put the poll options in since TK-Maximus wanted it. It's possibly a bit of a waste of a vote for the people that go for the cs_ maps.

Hostage maps are never played at any serious level and for good reason. It's generally best to follow the CPL Rules (http://www.thecpl.com/winter2004/cs_rules.html) for most things - they tend to have it spot on.

[Sid]

As a side note, please ensure you have voted for Office as the map of choice if you haven't already! We must ensure it's longevity.

As I've said before. Hostage maps will not be played in this tournament regardless of where they come in the voting, so it's a bit of a waste of a vote to be honest.

[Sideshow]

Uh, then what's the point of having a vote if you're not going to abide by it? Why don't you just choose your three favourite maps and we'll play those?

[Sid]

Uh, then what's the point of having a vote if you're not going to abide by it? Why don't you just choose your three favourite maps and we'll play those?

The vote was for defusal maps - I'm happy to play whatevers voted for most out of them all. Pit asked me to add office, so I did. It's not suitable for a match though.

[--Mogwai--]

whats the point of wanting to play office ever???? why dont you just go die in a hole somewhere instead????

[TK-Maximus]

Ahhhh, so when you posted CS:S touney, what you meant to say was CS:S, DE_ tourney.

People Like office. That's why I asked for it and that's why it's presently joint third. Granted, those voting for it (Particularly Myself) are among the less experienced players, but frankly, so what? "Your not good at this game, so stuff your opinion!"?

If you were going to magically pull a veto out of your hat if Office got voted for, why did you add it in the first place?

[Uuurrahh]

If you were going to magically pull a veto out of your hat if Office got voted for, why did you add it in the first place?

+1

...postcount.

[Sid]

Ahhhh, so when you posted CS:S touney, what you meant to say was CS:S, DE_ tourney.

DE is a given for any competitive CS, I didn't feel the need to put that in the tournament name.

People Like office. That's why I asked for it and that's why it's presently joint third. Granted, those voting for it (Particularly Myself) are among the less experienced players, but frankly, so what? "Your not good at this game, so stuff your opinion!"?

Yeah pretty much. In order for the tournament to be a success, I need to ensure poorly-formed ideas, such as having a CS map for a match, aren't allowed to go ahead - it'd ruin the tournament. I have no doubt that office will be feature in the main CS games.

If you were going to magically pull a veto out of your hat if Office got voted for, why did you add it in the first place?

Because you asked for it to be added and a few people were whining about it. I'd previously said that only DE maps would be played - I thought that was clear.

[gor]

Why dont we play office in cs final? Temple of Blood in the dow final? (quite fancy that Bloodthrister) and run round the food factory for the LFS final?

[YegaDoyai]

actually LFS has a carpark that would suffice, we can even put jumps in just for added thrills.

[Sideshow]

for real?

[DAve]

actually LFS has a carpark that would suffice, we can even put jumps in just for added thrills.
Can you save the maps with added jumps? That would be cool.

[Ru]

ya kno, in source and 2142 and others, you can jump whenever you hit the space bar. you dont need a car park or a ramp. i think ive made my point

[Fyndir]

ya kno, in source and 2142 and others, you can jump whenever you hit the space bar. you dont need a car park or a ramp. i think ive made my point

That those games involve a person..with legs for jumping..and LFS involves a car?

You can't jump in a car in BF2, as far as I know none of the cars jump in 2142...not without ramps anyway.

[DAve]

Oh, man, wouldn't it be great if they had pimped up hydraulics in LFS, then you could jump while lapping!
No. No it wouldn't. Go and buy FlatOut, it's great for that ;)

[Hash0r]

whats with the banter about office? to be honest, office is a crappy map for actual matches, and 3v3 on it would end up just being like single player. Iv always thoguth that bomb matches are much better for real matches, due to the multiple bomb sites and multiple tactic options compare to the limited tactics of hostage maps. thats all i ahve to say on the matter, because ill probably be on the floor spewing my guts out after drinking too much before the tournament even starts

[gor]

Hash, no more drinking, no more uni. You must practice, 14 hour shifts, every day for the next two weeks to have a chance against the sex panthers.

[Muppet]

HAHAH

[TK-Maximus]

Adding an option on a poll that you do not intend to abide by should it be voted for is dishonest. You've done it because you thought it would shut me up, and that no-one would vote for it.

There's alot of Chatter along the lines of "Office sucks" and "Hostage Maps Suck". Personally, I find DE_inferno a torturous pile of wank. As such, I didn't vote for it. But I would be playing it if that was the decision.

So here's my last point. Is it the committe's Postition that Sid may overrule the will of the society if a map he does not like come up high? (I am aware that office is presently 4th, and ergo that this would not happen ATM)

[LastChanceHotel]

Oh, man, wouldn't it be great if they had pimped up hydraulics in LFS, then you could jump while lapping!

If you fuck around with the suspension damping, this is actually possible.

(not to mention two-wheeled driving, if you're really really good at balancing)

[Sid]

You've done it because you thought it would shut me up

Aye pretty much. Wasn't quite as effective as I'd hoped.

So here's my last point. Is it the committe's Postition that Sid may overrule the will of the society if a map he does not like come up high? (I am aware that office is presently 4th, and ergo that this would not happen ATM)

Well yeah, it's me and gor's tournament, if you aren't in favour of the rules - you don't need to play.



I have edited my post slightly to not use quite so colourful language on the public forum.

[Hash0r]

i think we've found sids weakness, his kryptonite .................................................. .................................................. .. cs_office, mwaahahaha!

[Phizz]

Now now Sid. Let's all agree to disagree. If office does make it into the group choice you should honour your original statement saying that the most popular maps will be chosen. However, TK we know you love office and it's noticeable that other people do too. Perhaps the happy medium would be a) Sid, you allow office to be part of this tournament and specify DE maps next time and b) TK you organise a time when people can play office to their hearts content. End of.

[Sid]

Nah, I've said before that it's DE maps only and nothing else is suitable for match play. It's me and gor's tournament, if you don't like the rules, don't play. Simple.

I've even removed office from the poll now so there's nothing to be confused about. Don't want to get your hopes up.

[Muppet]

Although Sid may of gone over the top in his reactions - i still agree with him.

To be honest myself, if office was to be played in one of the matches, i wouldn't play. Theres just no feasible way to play a hostage map in proper tournament style. If i was a terrorist, i'd just camp like a gimp in the hostage room every single round and tell my teammates to do the exact same thing.

How would you feel if you played a team like that for 15 rounds? Suicidal? Bored shitless?

At least with de_maps there's more than one option of what to do. Theres 2 bomb sites, tactics have to be used to maintain cover all over the map between the 2 bomb sites - its more challenging.

[gor]

I don't think sid anticipated office would get such support when entering it in the poll. Should have known better. I wouldn't know where to start justifying its removal - theres just so much, like muppet has mentioned.

The predictability of the hostages is a good laugh, and leading a conga line through a gun fight is always a real hoot.

HAHAH


CU @ LAN MEIGHT!

[YegaDoyai]

Missing the issue.

It is your tourney sid, so I don't see the reaon of giving the option if you don't intend to honour the n00bs requests. I'm picking the cars and tracks for LFS (and when it is the full version I'll do the same) cos I know best. You have the right to that veto as organiser but it was unfair to use the language you used and the tone to a very honest, open and valid complaint.

Btw, i'm only posting this publicly because I can't see you online, which is unusual.

[Sid]

Yeah, you're right - I should never have added CS maps to the poll, but all the noobs were whining about it, and it was giving me a headache. To be honest, I thought it was clear that those maps weren't going to be played and that they were just in the poll for the sake of it ie. TK Maximus said he wasn't going to vote at all because office wasn't in.

I have found most of TK Maximus' replies to be curt and insensitive especially when I (and gor) are putting a lot of time into this in order for it to run smoothly. I like criticism, but most people with social skills know how to express it. Also, suggesting the committee should overthrow my decision, in my thread about my tournament is rude.

I'm not on MSN because I've been at gor's house all night trying to setup 3 servers for the tournament.

[Uuurrahh]

Fair enough, but the 'fuck off - my tournament, my map vote options' should have been said first of all, instead of putting the map up for vote - which was silly imo.

[Sid]

Fair enough, but the 'fuck off - my tournament, my map vote options' should have been said first of all, instead of putting the map up for vote - which was silly imo.

Yeah, you're right - I should never have added CS maps to the poll.

[Uuurrahh]

I was only agreeing :P

[TK-Maximus]

I have found most of TK Maximus' replies to be curt and insensitive especially when I (and gor) are putting a lot of time into this in order for it to run smoothly. I like criticism, but most people with social skills know how to express it. Also, suggesting the committee should overthrow my decision, in my thread about my tournament is rude.

You are quite right, I have made no effort to be sensitive towards your feelings in any of the posts I have made. HOWEVER, I find it unbelieveable that you would accuse me of this given the tone and content of your own posts. The first post I made on the topic was deleted by yourself. The Second persuaded you to add an option which you never intended to honor. Following on from there led us to finger pointing, name calling and so on.

And yes, I did suggest the committee should overrule you. Because the comittee runs the LAN, and for you to turn round and say what amounts to "The opinions of me and these members is more important than those of you and those members" is elitist, and should not be permitted.

I'm under no illusions that Office would have been played, as enough people who voted for a.n.other third option could have changed to Dust (Yourself included Sid) to avoid that.

all the noobs were whining

And here's the real problem. The attitude of the views of those who arn't good enough not counting. Mmmmm, Members and Members+. Good Stuff! [/sarc]

[Sid]

You are quite right, I have made no effort to be sensitive towards your feelings in any of the posts I have made.
You're losing me, babe. :(

I find it unbelieveable that you would accuse me of this given the tone and content of your own posts.
Care to enlighten me?

The first post I made on the topic was deleted by yourself.
As was everyone elses' post after they'd been added to the signups.

The Second persuaded you to add an option which you never intended to honor.
I did honour it - the option got added. I also stuck by what I'd been saying all along that hostage maps were not suitable and would not be played.

And yes, I did suggest the committee should overrule you. Because the comittee runs the LAN, and for you to turn round and say what amounts to "The opinions of me and these members is more important than those of you and those members" is elitist, and should not be permitted.
I'm entitled to my opinion. The committee does not have a dictator role to enforce what people must play. People turn up the LANs, choose what games they want to take part in from the big organised ones, or perhaps play some smaller games of their own.

I've decided that I'm hosting a few source games at the LAN, to which I'm inviting you and anyone else as guests. You play by my rules or not at all. No one at the LAN has the right to say I can't host a source game on a map of my choosing - if you don't like it - don't join.

And here's the real problem. The attitude of the views of those who arn't good enough not counting. Mmmmm, Members and Members+. Good Stuff! [/sarc]
I don't actually need to take anybody's opinions into account if I don't want to, but I have, particularly the tournament structuring, team balancing, and time management. I've spent a long time speaking to lots of people from the club such as Muppet, Sideshow and others.

I'm sorry if you can't understand that some people opinions are valued more highly in particular fields, but it's just the way it is. Larry and Ru actually just told me that there's going to be a solar eclipse tomorrow, but I just got off the phone to Patrick Moore and he says otherwise. I know who's opinion I'm going to go with. (*)

http://www.jigsawlounge.co.uk/kungfu/news/patrick-moore.jpg

(*) Larry, Ru or Patrick Moore never actually said any of that.