Buying new PC

[Tiberio]

Hey guys,
I have finally decided to get myself a new computer (budget is 1000 pounds).
Many of you guys have built your own computors and stuff and I bet even those of you that hasn't, certainly knows more about this than I do.
Any good advice guys, should I buy the components myself and get someone to build it for me, or should I buy one from a store?

[YegaDoyai]

what do you want for your £1000? Monitor/case/printer/keyboard etc? or do you just need a box? I'll return with a couple of options in about an hour.

*Glee*

First contestant, from OCUK, full system

REFERENCE DESCRIPTION PRICE
HD-018-SA Samsung SpinPoint P SP2504C 250GB SATA-II 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-018-SA) £44.99 £44.99
MO-046-VS Viewsonic VX922 19" LCD Monitor - Black/Silver (MO-046-VS) £189.99 £189.99
CP-135-IN Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - OEM (CP-135-IN) £99.99 £99.99
MB-152-AS Asus P5W DH Deluxe WiFi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-152-AS) £134.99 £134.99
CD-054-SO Sony AW-G170AB2 18x DVD±RW x12 Ram Dual Layer DVD-Writer - (Black) OEM (CD-054-SO) £18.99 £18.99
CA-065-AN Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case (CA-065-AN) £63.99 £63.99
CA-013-TG Tagan TG600-U25 600W ATX2.0 Dual Engine Silent SLi Compliant Silent PSU (CA-013-TG) £81.99 £81.99
KB-003-CH Cherry G83-6105 PS2 Keyboard - Black (G83-6105LPQGB-2) (KB-003-CH) £11.99 £11.99
GS-006-IC Steelpad S&S Mouse Pad (GS-006-IC) £12.50 £12.50
GX-134-SP Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-134-SP) £111.99 £111.99
MY-034-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC5300 667MHz Value DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB5300DC) (MY-034-GL) £139.99 £139.99
Subtotal £911.40
VAT £159.50
Total £1,070.90


the MOBO is pretty decent and the graphics and memory should stay the same for virtually any build (the slightly better Geil memory @ £200 is the best OC memory you can buy). The case and PSU are fairly highend so youu could cut corners here but I wouldnt recommend it. Niall just bought the same monitor specced in this build, it is reviewed as the standard for gaming and the results I've seen with nialls monitor are fantastic. also included is a cherry keyboard, g5 gaming mouse and the steel pad mouse mat wich I'm assured is a killer combo. If you HAVE to cut corners get a different case and a slightly lower spec mobo. But make sure you still get a 975 mobo. or maybe the new Nvidia 600i series but I've not seen them in shops yet.

[Tiberio]

the best thing would of course be if a monitor and keyboard came along aswell, but its not essential :P
All that needs to come with it is windows, damn microsoft for not allowing me to use my laptops windows !:P

[Sid]

Buying a complete system from an online supplier ie. Dell, will be cheaper than building your own, especially since Windows comes with all Dell machines - saving you money on software.

However, by building your own system with carefully selected components it is very easy to construct a much higher performance system as Dell will use value components in areas such as motherboard and RAM. You'll also gain a lot of experience into how a PC is put together and works. Then when something goes wrong you'll be able to fix it yourself rather than paying someone to come and fix it for you.

I'd certainly recommend building your own. If you can follow instructions - it's not hard.

--------------------------------------

As Yega has said Intel Core 2 Duo is the way to go, at the moment and the E6300 provides the best bang for buck.

Unless you're going for a multi-GPU setup, I'd use a 965 based motherboard - they clock better. The Asus P5B Deluxe, for example, and it would save you around £20 on the P5W DH Deluxe, too.

You'll want 2x1GB sticks of DDR2 memory. GeIL PC6400C4 if you can afford it and want to overclock. Some standard PC5300 if you're can't afford it or don't want to overclock.
BTW, yikes at the price of the lower timing Geil PC6400!

For the display, also consider the Dell E207WFP @ ~£270. The panel natively does 1680x1050 resoultion, with better contrast and brightness than the Viewsonic VX922. But while many say the picture is better, it doesn't feature the same low response time (5ms vs. 2ms) that is a must for those of us who take FPS games seriously. Depends what you use your computer for, mainly.

Agreed on the Logitech G5 mouse - it's the best on the market. Picking a 'best' mouse mat is a harder task as it really depends on what you like the feel of. Perhaps ask a few people nicely at the LAN to test a few of our mousemats to see what you like best.

I'd go with a bigger hard drive as I like to store all my game installers and app installers on a partition on my hard drive and I have over 50GB of music - this may not apply to you. Hard drive manufacturer doesn't really matter too much, anything from Seagate, Samsung or Western Digital will do you fine - I'd be inclined to go for a Seagate Barracuda due to their 5-year warranty, though.

Any Tagan PSU over 500W is a good bet. Just please don't buy that ugly mofo of a case :mrgreen:

I'll try and put together a system spec later. We really need to know what you're using the computer for first, though.



Edit: Oh, forgot to agree - an X1950 Pro GFX card is a great bet.

[Tiberio]

the pc will mainly be used for gaming, all im aiming for is power and graphics.
Hard-drive space is not an issue as i have an external 250gb harddrive, I would only need space for essential programs and games.
I saw this on ebay, but I value you guys's opinion more though :P

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hand-Built-PC-3-4Ghz-160Gb-HDD-2Gb-RAM-Dvd-RW_W0QQitemZ230048767139QQihZ013QQcategoryZ179QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

Also, it's essential that the PC is easy to upgrade, would that be easy to do with the setup you guys are thinking of?

[Sid]

That system is of a far lower specification that we've been talking. It uses an Intel Pentium 4 which is a CPU architecture which is years old, now. The fact that it's been used in that system is an absolute joke, to be quite honest. The graphics card is cheap and pathetic. The RAM is a decent size but goodness knows what kind of specification it is.

Bottom line, avoid that computer at all costs. You'd be wasting your money. I'll spec you a system later. Judging that you don't really need any hard disk space, I'd recommend a Western Digital Raptor.

[Sid]

Motherboard
Asus P5B Deluxe @ £140
or
Asus P5B @ £111 (if pushed for cash)

CPU
Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 Retail @ £135
(This is the only CPU you should consider, at the moment).

Memory
GeIL 2GB PC6400C4 @ £200

Graphics Card
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB @ £130
The cheapest X1950 Pro you can find.

Hard Drive
Western Digital Raptor 36GB @ £75
or
Western Digital Raptor 74GB @ 108 (if you need more than 36GB space)
or
Any Seagate Barracuda hard drive if you want to sacrifice speed for cost.
(Prices include 80GB for £35, 250GB for £61, £500 for £129)

Mouse
Logitech G5 @ £40

Keyboard
Whatever, really.
Standard Cherry Keyboard is always a good bet @ £15

Mouse mat
Wouldn't buy until you've tried a G5 with a number of different mouse mats to see what you prefer.

Display
Dell E207WFP @ £270
or
Viewsonic VX922 @ £220 (if you play FPS games competitively)

Power Supply
Tagan TG580-U15 @ £85
or
Tagan TG530-U15 @ £75 (if you can't afford the extra tenner)

Case
Upto you, really. I'd buy from Lian-Li, personally.


I've not totalled this up so it may go over your budget. If it does, and you're needing to make cuts, go for a lower-capacity Seagate Barracuda hard drive, the Viewsonic display and the Asus P5B motherboard.

[YegaDoyai]

i disagree with sid on some fundamentals, you are not the type of person that is likely to overclock your computer seriously so go for the 975 chipset or possibly the Nvidia 600i series they are just better. Ignore the dell screen too, that res is fantastic but I've seen that screen and I've seen the 922, only the 922 has no ghosting. Do not EVER post a nasty machine like that and ask for opinions. I suggest you read the following links, you are going to be dropping a grand on this 'pute so you might aswell know something about it.


Why you should get the Conroe over the A64
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64_uk/


Why you should consider the OC potential
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/10/10/cheap_thrills_uk/

Why you should get the X1950Pro
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/11/07/the_best_video_cards_for_your_money_uk/

Why you should ignore the Raptor drives unless you are using RAID
http://tomshardware.co.uk/storage/charts.html?modelx=33&model1=275&model2=280&chart=34

This last link should also point out why the Seagate should be ignored also.

[Fyndir]

I've not totalled this up so it may go over your budget. If it does, and you're needing to make cuts, go for a lower-capacity Seagate Barracuda hard drive, the Viewsonic display and the Asus P5B motherboard.

Using your more expensive choices in each category it's £1123.

[Sid]

Using your more expensive choices in each category it's £1123.

Yeah, I expected as much hence why I provided cheaper options in areas where cut-downs will be less noticable.

i disagree with sid on some fundamentals, you are not the type of person that is likely to overclock your computer seriously so go for the 975 chipset

Yeah, agreed. If you're not willing to push your system to its full potential go for the board Yega listed. As we're been arguing about on MSN at the moment, I'm pretty sure that a properly configured PC built with my listed components will outperform a custom pc built with any other components on the market for the same price.

Ignore the dell screen too, that res is fantastic but I've seen that screen and I've seen the 922, only the 922 has no ghosting.

If you:

play a lot of fast paced games ie. counter-strike
have an eye that notices tiny amount of ghosting
are willing to sacrifice general image quality for gaming performancethen go for the Viewsonic.


Why you should ignore the Raptor drives unless you are using RAID
http://tomshardware.co.uk/storage/charts.html?modelx=33&model1=275&model2=280&chart=34

This last link should also point out why the Seagate should be ignored also.

Performance was what was asked for and the raptor drives are the best performing S-ATA drives currently available. You'll find Windows starting seconds faster and games loading seconds faster due to the average access time being almost double as fast. It also has a average read and write speeds of around 25% more than the Spinpoint.

I do accept that it is very expensive and noisy in comparison and should only be bought if it can be afforded. In situations where money is tighter, a more standard S-ATA drive should be purchased.

Note the access times for the Spinpoint is 14 compared to 14.1 of the Seagate (no difference). Although the read/write speeds are faster I would argue that these make no real difference in average home computing. As as result I'd go for the Seagate due to the 5-year warranty.

[Tiberio]

Sorry about the suggestion of that pc guys, but give a poor soul like me a chance :P
Thx for all the suggestions so far, in regards to overclocking, I have no problem with that, as long as it does not damage other components.
Perhaps some extra cooling is needed?
So far, this is what I'm thinking of:

CP-126-IN Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 "LGA775 Allendale" 1.86GHz (1066FSB) - Retail (CP-126-IN)
£114.99
MB-152-AS Asus P5W DH Deluxe WiFi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard (MB-152-AS)
£134.99
MY-058-GL GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400C4 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC) (MY-058-GL)
£169.99
GX-134-SP Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-134-SP)
£111.99
HD-104-WD Western Digital Caviar RE 250GB 2500YS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM (HD-104-WD)
£49.99
CD-054-SO Sony AW-G170AB2 18x DVD±RW x12 Ram Dual Layer DVD-Writer - (Black) OEM (CD-054-SO)
£18.99
CA-009-TG Tagan TG580-U15 580W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-009-TG)
£71.99
CA-054-LL Lian-Li PC-7 PLUS Black Aluminium Midi-Tower Case (No PSU) (CA-054-LL)
£48.99
KB-003-CH Cherry G83-6105 PS2 Keyboard - Black (G83-6105LPQGB-2) (KB-003-CH)
£11.99
KB-069-LG Logitech G5 Gaming-Grade Laser Mouse - Retail (KB-069-LG)
£34.99
MO-016-OK OcUK Gamer Extreme 178GP 17" LCD Monitor - Black (MO-016-OK)
£99.99
Subtotal £868.89
VAT £152.06
Total £1,020.95

The WD raptor harddrives sound good, but they're a tad expensive for my taste, therefore, I decided to go with the Western Digital Caviar RE 250GB 2500YS SATA-II 16MB Cache as I figure I'd need a little extra space.
Now, the big question, how do you actually build this thing once all the components are there?
I'm thinking about getting a creative soundcard, but I honestly don't need 5.1 support as I play with headphones most of the time, Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Soundcard sounds like something I could use.
Thanks again everyone for helping a poor, unlightened soul understand all of this.

[Fyndir]

Yeah, I expected as much hence why I provided cheaper options in areas where cut-downs will be less noticable.

Even with the cut-down options (using all of them that you offered) the price is about £926.

And that's with no case and no mousemat. =P

[Sid]

Even with the cut-down options (using all of them that you offered) the price is about £926.

And that's with no case and no mousemat. =P

Why are you telling us this? I mean, do you have a point you're trying to make? :???:

Now, the big question, how do you actually build this thing once all the components are there?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=how+to+build+a+pc&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

I'm thinking about getting a creative soundcard, but I honestly don't need 5.1 support as I play with headphones most of the time, Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Soundcard sounds like something I could use.

The motherboard you've chosen has on-board sound which should be absolutely fine. Adding an X-Fi card at a later date would be a good upgrade if you're keen on particularly good sound from your PC.

I'm not too sure what the performance of that display is like. It's a rebadged Yusmart 178GP (http://www.yusmart.net/products8.htm) by the looks of things. I've never heard of Yusmart before and so I'm slightly skeptical. Perhaps hold off getting new keyboard and mouse until later so you can spend the money on the Viewsonic for now?

[Fyndir]

Why are you telling us this? I mean, do you have a point you're trying to make? :???:

I'm just pointing it out since you had said that you couldn't be bothered totalling it up.

Just trying to be helpful so that Tiberio has a better idea of what the options are, sorry if it came off the wrong way. <3

[Sid]

I'm just pointing it out since you had said that you couldn't be bothered totalling it up.

You seem to be saying it as if it's a problem. £926 without a case is well within his budget of £1000...

[Tiberio]

What i'm focusing on is the system itself, a really good screen will come at a later date, right now it's the system that matters.
By saving 100 pounds on the screen I will be able to invest it in both windows and the keyboard, then for christmas I can buy a better flat screen.
Wow, I never knew a motherboard had a built-in soundcard, i learn something new everyday! :P
In regards to soundcard, i'm an audiophile, I want the best sound money can buy, but I think you're right Sid, waiting a bit for it will allow me to look more closely at the cards available (and perhaps beg a bit in front of my parents) :P.
I'm just waiting for the money to arrive from my account in Luxembourg, hopefully I can buy all of this next week :)

[Sid]

Yeah, all sounds good - was just thinking you maybe had an old keyboard and mouse you could use for just now which would mean you could get the better monitor just now - so you wouldn't lose any money by reselling the other one etc.

I'll need to pick your brain on computer-based music. Unfortunately, my computer has ended up as the only device I play my music through so I'm keen to increase the quality.

[YegaDoyai]

the only sound card worth buying is the X-Fi. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise since it's release, the new fataility edition comes without the breakout box therefore is about £30-40 cheaper. Getting a 'cheapo' screen now might sound like a good idea but it's simply not worth it. I'd prefer to run my computer from a cardboard box than have a crap display. Also, don't get the Tagan modular PSU, they are not as good as the other Tagans.

Again, for someone that has never built a machine I think that looking at overclocking is silly. That is just my opinion from speaking to folk that have asked me to spec machines before. In general if you still need someone to help pick components then you should avoid overclocking your brand new computer. Can you imagine how you will panic when it refuses to boot for the umpteenth time after you set the memory timings incorrectly? Not worth the hassle, by the time the computer is reaching the end of its life you'll probably start overclocking it to get the most out of it before sending it to the retirement pile but I can't see you needing any extra performance from it out the box.

The question you have to ask is what will you do with that nasty 17" screen when you do buy a nice screen?

[Tiberio]

Unfortanetely I don't have a keyboard and mouse, been using a laptop so far.
Hmm, which PSU in that price range would you suggest Yega?
Thanks Sid for the info on how to put this all together, doesn't look like it is going to be too hard.
Perhaps one of you guys would like to supervise me as I wan't to make sure I do everything right and not break something :P

[Uuurrahh]

I'd prefer to run my computer from a cardboard box than have a crap display.

Are you knocking cardboard boxes...?

[Fyndir]

The question you have to ask is what will you do with that nasty 17" screen when you do buy a nice screen?

Give it to Fyndir as an "I love you" present?

[DAve]

as far as HDDs go, the Samsung Spinpoint is the best I've bought. It's whisper silent and quite robust as a HDD.

For the other components, I agree with Peter. He knows what he's talking about, you know :) Still looking forward to his monthly hardware column.

[YegaDoyai]

While I appriciate the complements, I do not discredit Sid advice, he is right in what he says but I think his build in inappropriate to the user.

[Tiberio]

I'm finally deciding on which parts i'm going to get but I do have a problem selecting the PSU.
So far, i'm aiming for the "Tagan TG500-U25 500W ATX2.0 Dual Engine Silent SLi Compliant Silent PSU" but I'm just wondering if that will be enough power for the PC (considering the components Yega suggested I should go with).
Also, is there any real difference between the Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 1.86Ghz CPU and the Intel Core 2 DUO E6400 2.13Ghz version?
All I can see is just the increase of processing power.

[Sid]

Also, is there any real difference between the Intel Core 2 DUO E6300 1.86Ghz CPU and the Intel Core 2 DUO E6400 2.13Ghz version?
All I can see is just the increase of processing power.

Yeah, just a small increase in stock clock speed - not worth paying extra for. The higher end models have double the cache but those are rather pricey and I believe the extra cache doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

And I think a 500W Tagan should be more than adequate.

[Sid]

Again, for someone that has never built a machine I think that looking at overclocking is silly. That is just my opinion from speaking to folk that have asked me to spec machines before. In general if you still need someone to help pick components then you should avoid overclocking your brand new computer. Can you imagine how you will panic when it refuses to boot for the umpteenth time after you set the memory timings incorrectly? Not worth the hassle, by the time the computer is reaching the end of its life you'll probably start overclocking it to get the most out of it before sending it to the retirement pile but I can't see you needing any extra performance from it out the box.

Sorry, seemed to have missed reading this post before but I really disagree with this. I built my first computer at 14 or something and went straight into overclocking and gradually got better at it - everybody has to start somewhere. With some light(ish) reading on overclocking you should be able to accomplish a decent bit of extra performance for free. You don't necessarily need to do this now, but by buying the right components now it'll give you the option later. And banging your head for hours when your computer refuses to boot is how you learn.

Particularly, since you're going for a lower-end C2D with a low multiplier, you'll need to be pushing the FSB. Most of the 975 boards tend to max out at around 450FSB, at best - 965 boards will go higher.

If you really aren't going to considering overclocking at all, then a well-featured 975 board is the best bet and I'd drop the memory down to cheap stock PC4200. With the money you save you should spend it on luxuries and features like your new soundcard or a nice case. Perhaps even upgrade the CPU to a conroe, although I'm not convinced a CPU upgrade would be the best way to spend your money.

I'm waiting to see what Kentsfield can do :)

[YegaDoyai]

See my approach to life is learn as much as you can about the subject before approaching doing anything about it. I built my first machine (with Dads assistance) around 11 or 12 and built my first machine, unassisted around 14. However overclocking then - for me we are talking the days of "What! You have a maths coprocessor!?!" - was a different affair to now, I just feel that what I learned can be learned better by reading rather than by banging your head against a wall. Learn the basics first, it was clear Tiberio had not done any real reading (even of prices) before asking for advice. Therefore how much reading is he going to do before cranking the voltage and watching the magic smoke escape? Yes that is a big assumption, but I'm willing to stand by it. If that is the case then specing an OC centric build seems foolish, the overclock on even the worst performers is still something in the order of 10% over stock (provided your memory can cope - the CPU certainly will) so the main limiting factor that I have read about is the quality of memory and then after that it is your ability to get the most out of a configuration.

Looks like the new 680i nForce is the badass when it come to overclocking now.

[DAve]

However overclocking then - for me we are talking the days of "What! You have a maths coprocessor!?!"
Ah, the good old days. I remember buying a 4 meg board with an onboard FPU and thinking that machines really don't get more powerful than that.
:misty sheen:

[Sid]

Ah, the good old days. I remember buying a 4 meg board with an onboard FPU and thinking that machines really don't get more powerful than that.
:misty sheen:

hehe. It was all about the zx spectrum for me - 128kB of RAM and a noisy cassette loader - had some fantastic games, though.

Oh by the way, I was reading good things about the Sondigo Inferno (http://www.sondigo.com/inferno) sound card. Might be worth considering instead of the X-Fi if you're into music/film more than gaming.

[Fyndir]

Vaguely on topic, avoid Compaq machines if you ever want to overclock.

It seems like I can't do ANYTHING with overclocking through my BIOS, it's possible I've just completely missed the option, but I checked twice and couldn't see anything.

I guess I just have to wait until I upgrade my mobo and such before I can do anything. =(

[YegaDoyai]

Sadly fyndir misses the point, it's not Compaqs fault they put an MSI board in his machince before MSI decided to make decent boards.

[Tiberio]

Ok guys, first of all, thanks for everyone's advice, I owe you all a beer! ;-)
These will most likely be the parts that will be in my new PC.

Intel Core 2 DUO E6400 "LGA775 Allendale" 2.13GHz (1066FSB) - Retail
£142.99
Asus P5W DH Deluxe WiFi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
£134.99
GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400C4 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC)
£169.99
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail
£111.99
Western Digital Caviar RE 250GB 2500YS SATA-II 16MB Cache - OEM
£49.99
Sony AW-G170AB2 18x DVD±RW x12 Ram Dual Layer DVD-Writer - (Black) OEM
£18.99
Lian-Li PC-7 PLUS Black Aluminium Midi-Tower Case (No PSU)
£48.99
Tagan TG500-U25 500W ATX2.0 Dual Engine Silent SLi Compliant Silent PSU
£64.99
Logitech S96 PS/2 Optical Wheel Mouse Black - OEM
£5.50
Cherry Black CyMotion Expert (USB/PS2) Keyboard - Black (G86-2
£14.99
Viewsonic VP920 19" LCD Monitor - Black/Silver
£184.99
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition inc. SP2 - OEM - 1Pk (N09-01528)
£52.99

Subtotal £1,003.39

Total £1,178.98

I decided to go with the 2.13 GHz option in regards to processor, this is because I don't feel comfortable regarding the whole overclocking thing just yet, so a slighty more powerful CPU won't hurt I think.
I am buying the viewsonic because you all seem to agree that this is the best bang for buck, it certainly looks good!
In regards to mouse, the G5 will have to wait a bit, I simply can't afford it at the moment, but it is very high on my christmas list!
The Tagan PSU has enough power I think, and it also seems to have all the things I will need in the future.
Hehe, i'm already starting to plan what I will get next, another graphics card so I can go crossfire perhaps?;-)
I haven't even ordered the PC yet and already i'm addicted! :-)
I'm going to ask again if there is anyone of you guys who would mind supervising when i'm building this machine as this will be my first time...

[Sid]

My opinions:

For £5 more I'd go for the Viewsonic 922 monitor over the 920.
I really would suggest a high-end mouse - you won't regret it. The Logitech G5 will be a joy to use and will instantly make you better at games.
I don't think you should go with the CPU upgrade.
Buying Windows XP at this stage is maybe a bit of a waste of money with Vista being released Jan 2007. PM me for more info.

[CaNNoN_FoDDa]

Ive got some left-over arctic silver you can scrounge

[DAve]

My opinions:

I really would suggest a high-end mouse - you won't regret it. The Logitech G5 will be a joy to use and will instantly make you better at games.
Buying Windows XP at this stage is maybe a bit of a waste of money with Vista being released Jan 2007. PM me for more info.
Really? the mouse will make that much of a difference?

You could always go with linux in the meantime. Some of the distros are a joy to use, and every bit as functional as Windows. [well, until you try and play a game made after 1990, that is :-D ]

I'm holding back in Vista for a while, until the teething problems are ironed out.

[Muppet]

Linux is good and can run the likes of CSS and BF2, even BF2142, but it *may* require a lot of tweaking to get most games (as DAve said - made after 1990 :p ) up and running smoothly.

[Sid]

Really? the mouse will make that much of a difference?

Yeah, definitely. When I got my MX700 years ago my CS (think it was 1.5 at the time) game improved drastically almost overnight.

Unfortunately my setup isn't responding to CS as well as it should at the moment ...that combined with the fact that I'm shit at source. I think a fast response time TFT and wired mouse might be the answer. And lots of practice. :D

[YcMing]

i don't know if a better mouse means increase in skills..... , i mean how do you go about proving it does ? but those mad gaming mouse do look amazing ^^


Your machine do look neat :P , i am another one of them people that knows nothing about computers :P, so good luck with building it ^^

[Ru]

im just chiming in with mcming here. additionally, mcming, your avatar is so cute

[YcMing]

lol lol lol ^.^ McMing :P i like it ;) my avatar owns ain't it ^^ ?

[gor]

I'll put my neck out and say that a decent mouse is 40% of your gameplay.

[CaNNoN_FoDDa]

I'll put my neck out and say that a decent mouse is 40% of your gameplay

..and 90% of statistics are bullshit?

[Muppet]

Not sure about 40%, i've been using a pretty standard Logitech 800dpi optical mouse for a couple of years now and have tried the likes of a Razer Diamondback (1600dpi) on my cousins pc. I never really noticed that much a difference. Even after a few hours gameplay with the Diamondback, i still much preferred my Logitech.

What is everyone else using at the moment?

[GingerPrinz]

I've seen --M0gw4i-- use a 2" long keyring laptop mouse and own top notch BF2 servers. Sure a good mouse helps, just like good football boots help you play football. It will give you the edge over someone of equivalent skill to you, but not the edge over someone who is better than you.

[Sid]

Not sure about 40%, i've been using a pretty standard Logitech 800dpi optical mouse for a couple of years now and have tried the likes of a Razer Diamondback (1600dpi) on my cousins pc. I never really noticed that much a difference. Even after a few hours gameplay with the Diamondback, i still much preferred my Logitech.

An 800dpi logitech is really pretty good. My upgrade was from the classic Microsoft mouse.

I've seen --M0gw4i-- use a 2" long keyring laptop mouse and own top notch BF2 servers. Sure a good mouse helps, just like good football boots help you play football. It will give you the edge over someone of equivalent skill to you, but not the edge over someone who is better than you.

My decision was mainly based on CS. BF2 doesn't require the same accuracy or response as CS.

The problem with CS is that you can never become good unless you have a good mouse.

[Fyndir]

The problem with CS is that you can never become good unless you have a good mouse.

Well that's my excuse sorted. ^^

[YcMing]

"I'll put my neck out and say that a decent mouse is 40% of your gameplay."

Is the converse of that true? give a pro a crap mouse and his skills level automatically drop by 40% :P ?

Gaming mouses looks amazing that is true, but i am not really convince that it will increase your skills as much as you guys say ^.^.

[Bluepixie]

It will give you the edge over someone of equivalent skill to you, but not the edge over someone who is better than you.

Yup, spot on. A mouse is just a tool, it can only be used as well as the person using it.

But going back to what you were saying about the 975 v 965 sid. The thing that people don't realise is that the "new" 975 is better than the 965 for oc. Admittedly out of the box performance is not as high as the 965 (check out the benchmarks at Tomshardware (www.tomshardware.com)) but the 975 has more features and is more stable at high frequencies. The other thing to note is that the 975 has dual x16 PCIe for Crossfire support were as the 965 only has one x16, the other part of the Crossfire being done on an extended PCI bus. I still wish that I could have got the 965 MSI platinum though, :( due to the price difference, but nevermind. :(

[Tiberio]

Hi everyone, tonight i'm ordering my computer :)
However, the 'Asus P5W DH Deluxe WiFi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard' is not in stock, any other motherboard in that price range?

[gor]

there are a number of variables - non of which matter if the player doesn't understand the physics of the aiming system.

The mouse is just the main variable.

[Bluepixie]

Ya, that happened to me today aswell, Scan went out of stock of the Platinum. If you really want to spend crazy money on your MB I would get the Intel's D975XBX. It really is a bad ass board, not really the best for overclocking but great features and solid performance. What else would expect from Intel though?

If you don't mind going for a 965P (i.e. you're not seriously thinking about Crossfire in the future, but want to get down with oc) get the Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 or the Asus P5B Deluxe. Both are ment to have excellent oc performance and have the uber heat pipes that the 975X Asus has.

[Tiberio]

Well, looks like I'm not ordering tonight.
Overclockers refuses to take my order, even though I called my bank and they say nothing is wrong with my account or card.
Guess I will have to call them tomorrow and find out what the hell is going on...

[Bluepixie]

That's odd, I was being told the same thing earlier on the phone when I was trying to amend my order. Wonder what the hell is up with them now.....

Which board did you decide to go for?

[Tiberio]

I honestly think i'm going to stick with the Asus P5W DH Deluxe WiFi (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard, even though I will have to buy it from somewhere else.
When I call tomorrow, I will ask about when they expect a new delivery.
It's unbelieable, you finally have the money and now you can't spend it!;-)
I really like the crossfire thing, that's my main reason for sticking with it.

[Tiberio]

Finally, after an hour spent on the phone I can finally place my order at overclockers!
The motherboard has been bought of aria.co.uk since they were the only ones that guaranteed a saturday delivery to coincide with the overclockers delivery.
And my dad has bought my laptop so I had a bit more money to spend on the PC.
I've upgraded to the Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 2.40 GHz, been able to buy the G5 mouse and the Viewsonic VX220 screen.
I just hope I get it all on saturday:-)

[Bluepixie]

Sounds good, hopefully we'll get both of our deliveries tomorrow! Hopefully gaming bliss this weekend.....

[YegaDoyai]

why did you go for the inferior 920 in the end?

[Tiberio]

I did go for the Viewsonic VX220 in the end though:-)
Hehe, I feel like a 6 year old again who's waiting for christmas :P

[Tiberio]

Got the parts today, however, I noticed there wasn't an audio cable for my dvd-drive, should this have been included with my motherboard?

[YegaDoyai]

no, we use digital transfer now and have done since Win98 SE.

Can you read? I asked why you went with the inferior (meaning not as good) 920 rather than the excellent (meaning better than the one you have) 922?

[Tiberio]

Yega, I do have the 220, its sitting on my desk as I type this.
What CPU temperature would you guys consider within acceptable limits?

[Fyndir]

What CPU temperature would you guys consider within acceptable limits?

If I remember right if it's anything between 30 and 50 it's alright.

between 30 and 40 is pretty good.


maybe.

possibly.

perhaps.

[YegaDoyai]

As fyndir said for temps.

Recap:

I say - "Get the 922"

You say - "I'm getting the 920"

Sid says - "Get the 922"

You say - "I'm getting the 920"

I say - "Why are you getting the 920"

You say - "I am getting the 920"

I say - "Seriously, why are you getting the 920 and not the 922"

You say - "I have got the 220"

I say. Please explain, there's been some confusion and it's all because the internet is NOT A BIG TRUCK, IT'S A SERIES OF TUBES.

What model did you buy in the end. The shitty, inferior 920 like you said or the superior 922 like we told you to get?

If you got the shitty inferior 920 then why the fuck did you do that!?!


PPS Nothing pisses me off more than being misunderstood, especially when it is in plain english and even worse when it is typed out.

Mods - if you think this is too harsh feel free to hack it away but you'll find it coming back.

Mr. Fyndir Mod thinks that the PS part was too harsh, and some of the swearing too, so a swift edit later and everything looks a bit more friendlier. The main part of your message is still there though, so just leave it at that? =)

[Tiberio]

My sincerest apologies to you Yega, I completely misunderstood and thought it was the 920 that was the good one, not realising that it was actually the 922.
I missed the 2 at the end and i'm sorry.
Hey, because i'm stupid and i'm sorry for upsetting you in any way, I will buy you a beer next time I see you.
So to make it clear, the screen I have is the Viewsonic VX922 19" LCD Monitor.
And I was asking about the temp. of the CPU because my BIOS screen was giving me some weird readings, around 70degrees.
I then found out that my CPU cooler was loose and I fixed it back in place, I was a bit too careful I guess :-).
Am now installing all the drivers, hopefully I will be able to play a little tonight.

[YegaDoyai]

mistyped on 3 seperate occasions!?!

At least you got the good monitor, I can rest assured that my advice (and Sids) was heeded.

[Tiberio]

What can I say, i'm very stupid and stubborn ;-)

[DAve]

And I was asking about the temp. of the CPU because my BIOS screen was giving me some weird readings, around 70degrees.
I then found out that my CPU cooler was loose and I fixed it back in place, I was a bit too careful I guess :-).
whoops!
I've used way too much cpu grease before, and had that temp. Re-seating the CPU as you've done, with a thin layer (I didn't realise it had to be almost transparently thin) did the trick.