TBE Clan tactics

[Sideshow]

Last night we (me, Bluepixie, Mogwai, Exuus and YegaDonai) had a trial run at working together as a team, in preperation for the game against TBE (should it ever be organised).
Went pretty well, considering it was the first time, I think mainly because everyone is >competent, verging on good, so even without massively coordinated teamplay we're still pretty solid. Team tactics were coming through as we progressed, so I think things are looking good. I remember covering the bridge on aztec, while the rest of the team covered the main bombsite - I died, and everyone rallied immediately to the correct bomb site (highlighted by one of the opponents commenting 'Did you see how they all converged on him?') :) 'course, it's pretty easy when everyone has a headset, but I don't think he knew that :P

Should we discuss tactics?

[YegaDoyai]

Yes. I like to think I'm a flexible player but I would prefer to know how you like to play a particular map. That way I can find a style to compliment yours.
Going solo is very dangerous for me as I tend to get a little caught up and try and take on 4 guys at once and not back down. If I have cover and support then I work better because I don't think "ah 'uck it! Let's Go!!", I play to be supported and to support. That's why I get particulalry annoyed when my 'cover' walks off without telling me leaving me somewhat exposed when reloading. (not looking at anyone in particular Pixie boy! :evil: )

Also I'd like to know the favoured approaches to dealing with the enemy ie if you are in situations like:

1v1
1v2
1v4or more

I noted that Mogwai waited while Sideshow got thoroughly pwned on dust and then casually took out the 2 t's when they walked off. As he didn't fire, they missed him. Due to the proportionate difference in thier weapons to his (AK v MP5) he would have stood no chance had he taken them on in a direct fashion (point blank range). I would have jumped in to try and seperate the fire from sideshow thus leveling the score a little (200health to 200health) but Mogwai really took the biscuit and wasted them both without a scratch. (i think he went on to win the round for us too.)

Privately (or at least seperately) Pixie and I should get our paired working together. (Any team game will do but it's best to practice in CS:S i guess.) Things like room clearance and choosing targets. (so we don't try and take down the same guy and get wasted by the second one or whatever.)

[Sideshow]

I noted that Mogwai waited while Sideshow got thoroughly pwned on dust and then casually took out the 2 t's when they walked off.

You're misremembering this slightly, though your point is still valid. What actually happened was I (as T) went into tunnel and banged left. Following through I found 2 blind CTs and gunnned them down. I proceeded left towards bomb site, and got gunned by Mogwai, who had been hiding behind the crate the whole time. He kept his cool, and didn't start spraying/strafing, and as a result nailed me in the ass.

[Bluepixie]

Yeah I remember that. I was other guy Mogwai shot in the back. LOL

But yes, I will hold my hand up about the "running off" and leaving Peter. I do get a bit excited when the lead starts flying and tend to get a bit blood thirsty. :) I shall have to work on that.

Over all though, it was a very good practice. I very much enjoyed playing with you guys as a team. We seem to work together well, esp in Aztec. Time to discuss tactics would be great, can we get together on MSN at least? Maybe even a pub/RL meet? I know you're further away Peter, but not for long! :D

[Sideshow]

I think a forum makes a better place to discuss tactics - gives people time to collect their thoughts, and be more succinct. I might write an aritcle on what I'd like to see tactics-wise, if anyone else wanted to do the same that'd be cool.

And yeah, we kicked ass on Aztec.

[Bluepixie]

Ok that's fine. My only concern is that other people can look at it too. Can we have a part set aside that only registered users can see? For tactics. Don't want just ANYBODY looking at our plans.....

[Sideshow]

Well, I didn't think it was all the mysterious - I doubt we'll come up with anything that any other clan hasn't thought of before. BUt..


DAve! DAve! Magical Mystical Guru of GUNS! Make us a forum that we might smite our foes! Called '[GUNS] Counter-Strike', it will be our store of knowledge, our repository of weapon, an arsenal of matériel. Of all the peons of the internetical, only those known as
Sideshow
Bluepixie
PaperNinja
Mogwai
YegaDonai
Exuus
GingerLoki
SquirrelKing
will be able to pass the gate!
I call upon Him; the DAve! the DAve! the DAve!

[Bluepixie]

I call upon Him; the DAve! the DAve! the DAve!

ROFL

And there was light.

[Bluepixie]

Hey, check this out.

http://www.ticclan.com/events-projects/dictionary/

http://www.csnation.net/cs2d/mymaps/dust/CS2D_IMAGEMAP2_DE_DUST.gif

http://www.csnation.net/cs2d/submitted/aztec/CS2D_DE_AZTEC_SUB_V11.jpg

http://www.csnation.net/cs2d/submitted/dust2/CS2D_DE_DUST2_SUB2.jpg

we can like draw on them to help get points across.

What you think?

[DAve]

Make us a forum that we might smite our foes
The forum is now created. It is called Tactics.

Of all the peons of the internetical, only those known as
Sideshow
Bluepixie
PaperNinja
Mogwai
YegaDonai
Exuus
GingerLoki
SquirrelKing
will be able to pass the gate!
The group known as "GUNS Players" in usergroups has access. Bluepixie and I have access to the "add users" function therein. You should be able to add and delete users from that group, bluepixie. Try it and find out :)
You may have to open and close the group first though.

[--Mogwai--]

ideally if we could arrange with TBE to have de_aztec as the map (one of the mapS? )we play on, that would be helpful, as we did do pretty well. the positioning was good, i.e. with 4 of us one watching bridge, one covering them / watching stairs from water, and 2 covering the double doors / water from the bombsite. however, when we played there was a lot of role-swapping, we would be far more effective i think to each have our own "spot". i.e. Mogwai always covers bridge, Sideshow always supports him/watches stairs from water, Bluepixie and YegaDoyai always team up at the bombsite to cover double-doors and the water from above, or whatever set-up people are most comfortable with.

( this example is based purely on the 4 of us who played that game last night, as CT on aztec, but a similar plan should be implemented when playing as CT on any de_ map. and obviously the more players, the more water-tight the defense)

on letting your team-mates die... 2 examples have been mentioned. hiding from the flashbang worked, leaving the team-mate uncovered while relaoding didnt work so well. but in both situations, you have ot accept that your teammate is doing what they're doing for the good of the team, so ideally not losing the plot with one-another has to be a priority. team-spirit etc.

the map layout pictures seem quite handy, if we're not able to get folk together regulalry for walk-throughs of our tactics, so if there was a way to have the images edited with positions/notes and put back up here, that'd be handy?

[YegaDoyai]

k, so I guess it would be best to list the maps then talk about how we prefer to play and come up with tactics from there. Also mention any tactics you have seen used. Any particular favorites? I still don't know the new style levels well enough.

[Sideshow]

however, when we played there was a lot of role-swapping, we would be far more effective i think to each have our own "spot".

This sounds good in practice, but doesn't work in actual play; every round you spawn in a random position. If we played like this there would be some rounds where the team spawned the wrong way round, and we'd get into position a few seconds late. When we were playing aztec and I ran through double doors to the main bomb site, there were a few rounds where one of the T's was already half way across the walkway above the water. A few seconds later and he would be clear through to the CT spawn bomb site, behind the bridge, and behind the bridge defenders.
So, while there are key position the defenders have to guard, we can't statically assign them to players. So...

Players nearest exits from spawn are going to be in the lead. Everyone else should follow them splitting off where approiate. Example, on de_aztec (assuming 4 players - Sideshow, Mogwai, Bluepixie and Exuus).

Sideshow starts next to the double doors, Mogwai next to the steps up to the bridge. The other two start between them. Round starts, and Sideshow charges through the double doors. Exuus is closer to him, so he follows. At the same time Mogwai goes up steps and through arch to cover bridge. Bluepixie can follow Mogwai, to guard bridge, or he can run right, either to guard the top of the steps up from the water, or to run down to the far double doors (if the rest of the team are being aggresive). Once Sideshow gets to the bomb site, he can run down the ramp to try and snipe bridge crossers/hit people in the water, or he can run for the far double-doors. Exuus can either do whatever one Sideshow doesn't, or he can stop at the site, covering the doors and the water from range.
That seems retardedly obvious, why did I type all that. Meh.
The point is, everyone has to be able to do everything, and react to how the game is progressing. Which is why the awp is a bad choice :)

Um, also, the player who's behind has to pay attention to the direction the lead is covering, and cover somewhere else.

[Exuus]

If anyone wants to play tonight or over the weekend I can teach some excellent room clearance tactics, if it works in Raven Shield, it should work in CS rather well also.

[--Mogwai--]

This sounds good in practice, but doesn't work in actual play; every round you spawn in a random position. If we played like this there would be some rounds where the team spawned the wrong way round, and we'd get into position a few seconds late. When we were playing aztec and I ran through double doors to the main bomb site, there were a few rounds where one of the T's was already half way across the walkway above the water. A few seconds later and he would be clear through to the CT spawn bomb site

this is purely a matter of being too slow when buying your weapons. no matter where you spawn you can get to where you need to go in time when defending. you have to have your own set plan, otherwise you waste more time with "no i spawned closer" "oh i thought you realised you were closer" "oh why didnt anyone say" "WTF WE'RE ALL GOING LONG A?!" that you do running across your spawn

EDIT : as for being on the offensive / playing T ( or CT assuming we play any hostage maps, though they're not really "proper" match maps...) we will need someone to call the tactics. one person who decides where and when we rush/hang back, who everyone listens to and obeys without fail. it really is a very simple and effective way to win matches

[Sideshow]

this is purely a matter of being too slow when buying your weapons. no matter where you spawn you can get to where you need to go in time when defending.

No, that's simply not true. Like I said before - I was starting next to double doors, I never go over my buy time, and ran as quick as possible to get into position, and the guy was half way along the balcony. If I'd had to run the length of the CT spawn, he would have been through.

[Bluepixie]

this is purely a matter of being too slow when buying your weapons. no matter where you spawn you can get to where you need to go in time when defending.

No, that's simply not true. Like I said before - I was starting next to double doors, I never go over my buy time, and ran as quick as possible to get into position, and the guy was half way along the balcony. If I'd had to run the length of the CT spawn, he would have been through.

Sideshow has a good point. Were you spawn can make all the difference. If you are playing assault (not a match map but never the less) as a T, and you spawn up on the balcony, near the alley top door. If you are off the mark, you can get outside, and up the ladder to the roof (with the other "close" spawn buddie) behind you. Once up there, two of you can cover the vent and the alley with ease. Other's inside guard the alley from inside and the rest cover the main door. But this ONLY works if the person spawning nearest to the top alley door MOVES STRAIGHT AWAY. If somebody else tries this (maybe spawning near the main door up stairs or in the control room) if he goes out that door straight after spawning, he's going to get a mouth full of lead.

Exuus, I'm up for some more practice at the weekend. Will be busy today and I'm helping my sister move on Friday, but the weekend is clear. Anybody else up for "fire and movement" lessons? Ah, I remember the days of old, doing room clearing and squad movement in Doom. :D Such good memories. :)

[--Mogwai--]

well, knife out when you run etc. but mixing up positions is asking for a lot more trouble than the rare occasions when you mess up and dont get to where you're going in time, and neither does the other guy headed in the same direction.

[Sideshow]

Well, let's just try them out next time we practice. I think you're underestimating peoples ability - it's not that hard to have a look around at the start, or glance at the radar. In fact, you don't really even need to do that, just try and run to the nearest exit, but if you see half the team ahead of you go the other way.
I got a headset last night, so can join in the speech malarkey.

[DAve]

When's the next practice scheduled for?

[Sideshow]

No schedule right now. I'm going away for the weekend tonight, be back monday, so any evening after that is good for me.

[YegaDoyai]

likewise, any time this week should be good for me, sisters wedding is out of the way now so I'm free to play.

[DAve]

How about tuesday at 8pm online (somewhere)?
I'm not used to this finding servers for CS:S.

DAve

[Bluepixie]

Right, Im in no place to play for two reasons.

1. I'm in Oban right now, then I'll be in Wales til next Tues (23rd I think)
2. When I do get back, I'll have no machine to play on. :(

BUT I will be ready by next Thursday (I hope) and I shall keep you posted. :)

However, don't feel that you can't have practice matches without me. Always better not to get rusty! Shall join you as soon as I can.

[Sideshow]

I'm good for tonight at 8pm. Is everyone else (bar Blue)?

I was just skimming over this thread on my way here, and realised I hadn't responded to one of Larry's points - that whenever we are the offensive team someone should call the play, and all should follow that lead. I agree with this totally. It doesn't really matter who it is (though I'd suggest him). I think there is room for random noise though - if the call is to rush bridge on dust, then it's OK if one or maybe two players peel off to either represent presence in the tunnel, or cover the tunnel in case of a CT incursion. In the whole though, the call should be followed.

One other thing - in CS:Source there's a status display below the radar which reads where you currently are in the map. I spent ten minutes running around dust, dust 2, aztec and office trying to memorise the place names, and I suggest everyone else does the same. At least to the point of knowing which bombsite is A and which is B.

[Bluepixie]

I'm good for tonight at 8pm. Is everyone else (bar Blue)?

One other thing - in CS:Source there's a status display below the radar which reads where you currently are in the map. I spent ten minutes running around dust, dust 2, aztec and office trying to memorise the place names, and I suggest everyone else does the same. At least to the point of knowing which bombsite is A and which is B.

How did it go last night?

Yes, and I agree completely with radio/place name use. I think I know most of them for Dust 1 and 2, Office, Aztec and Assualt. If we all work on that it would help a great deal when using the mics. Would cut down a bit on air time and would make locating buddies easier. When someone is talking on the mic, you can also check your radar as the "taking" team member shows up red, which is also very handy. Not sure how much use it is if you know all of the place names but can still be used I suppose.

[YegaDoyai]

'k so it ain't CS:S but it is quite good

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=205

Blegh, suggested reading for all BF2 players.

[Bluepixie]

'k so it ain't CS:S but it is quite good

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/forumdisplay.php?f=205

Blegh, suggested reading for all BF2 players.

Excellent advice in there. I'm particularly interested in use of air-support. What you say?!? jets?!?! Useful?!? well I never.

However, most of the fire & movement can be learned via some long session s with Ghost Recon. Good points though.