rcon ball_rolling 1

[YegaDoyai]

'k so I though as I can't be arsed doing the work I'm paid to do I'd start a thred to get some discussion on the next step for the LAN group. I'm picking out the hardware side of things to discuss as that's what is bothering me most at the momnet but anything you want to discuss could go in this thread.

To start:

Jan
£150 will get us a 2800+ Sempron 1GB RAM server, that is the same spec as mine and Ru's processor so easily capable of serving. Also, that particular Sempron is a strong overclocker, as I have proven (the E6 revision is even better). I will donate a case, PSU, CD drive (i might be able to spare a DVD drive), graphics card and the 10/100mbs network cards I have to ensure the server can go up ASAP. It would, however, need donantions of HDDs, Pixie might be willing to lend the 80GB in the current server but you'll need to check with him. Gigabit network cards cost about £30 for a decent one and about £15 for a cheapo card. We'd need 4, 2 per server?

16port + 2gigabit Switches seem to run for just shy of £100 a pop, we'll need 2 initally and 3 for comfort. It seems a shame that we recently bought a switch and are already considering replacing it but I agree with your idea to get the gigabit backbone. Maybe we could sell the two decent ones we have when we get the new ones? who knows.

In order to get the cash to do this I was thinking of a fundraiser. We could have a raffle, everyone puts in £10 and then one lucky winner walks away with a brandspanking new mouse/headphones/<some> the proceeds go directly to buying new equipment. Other than that we could try selling stuff at the freshers fair (if it allowed, home baking always go down a treat as everyone loves cake). We need to do something and we need to do it quick.

Lets assume we have £300 to spend. What, in folks opinion, is more important, a 66 tick server or network infrastucture. (Jan, I hope to get a reasoned argument from you)

[Fyndir]

Personally I think the network infastructure should be a primary goal as one of the major complaints we hear from everyone is about lag and especially the problems with everything freezing up if someone starts sharing during a game.


IMHO if we get that sorted the 66 tick can wait a little while as most games are fairly playable without it.

[Strings]

Fyndir, you have a point.. but in my opinion I find the network infrastructure just as important as getting a decent and capable game server.

Although it was for a short time, we were experiencing issues with the BF2 servers. Same goes with Sourceforts and of course.. CSS. At this stage in the game, it should be imperative to get the game being played to run smoothly and stably.

I'm not the treasurer, so I can't comment on the funds... but surely we have some sort of revenue from charging people entry to the LAN? Seeing as the SRC is free and all. That should make a little dent at least in the costs for accomodating both avenues.

But a fundraiser, sounds like a great idea. Or perhaps an externally organised pay-t0-play DoW tournament. Anything along those lines perhaps. If push came to shove, once all these profits are added together, I'm sure some of us would donate a little to get this all established.

And remember, for the switches, I'd say Ebay is our friend. I've just had a 5 second "buy it now" look, and found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3COM-SUPERSTACK-3-24-PORT-SWITCH-10-100-1000-3C16467_W0QQitemZ9736146885QQcategoryZ51268QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

Even a couple of those would be sufficient, though I'm sure there are better deals to be found on the site.

[Sid]

Gigabit isn't really required for every client on the LAN. Even the biggest LANs in the country don't bother with that - it's far too expensive to impliment, at the moment. Providing the servers are bi-wired into the switch with gigabit network then it'll all run fantastically.

Performance will be better buying as big a switch as possible, rather than wiring together several. I'd reccomend buying a 32/48-port like this (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/90842), if the funds could be found for it.

I've made a rough diagram, shown below, illustrating the setup I'd propose. Note: The Gigabit switch would be a 'stage 2' upgrade once either more switches or more servers are added to the network.

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/2961/snetworkdiagram5nu.th.jpg (http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snetworkdiagram5nu.jpg)

[Captain_Caveman]

Found a single switch that does the entire diagram you depicted

http://www.morecomputers.co.uk/textra.asp?pn=SRW248G4%2DUK

[Sid]

Found a single switch that does the entire diagram you depicted

http://www.morecomputers.co.uk/textra.asp?pn=SRW248G4%2DUK

It doesn't quite do what my diagram depicted :wink: as my diagram was really to show how the network should expand after the 32-man stage. The switch you've shown, however, is definitely the kind of thing that we should be aiming for just now.

[DAve]

as long as you remember we have to actually link the thing via cables to peoples PCs. This would be a major point of planning for the lan, and one I would like to see some numbers for.

Also, sorry I've not been replying recently. Mid term review in a few days & snowed under with work. I'm not being snotty or anything :)

[Phizz]

any input from you is more than welcome Dave. I'm not sure about most of what you guys are on about but I do think that the switching does need to be centralised cos it's been the cause of at least 1 problem every single LAN I've been to.

[Captain_Caveman]

Have looked on Ebuyer and for just under the £200 mark we can get an Athlon 64 3200, 1gb ram a 939 board and a 120gb SATA drive for it (figured if we gonna get a game server drive may as well make it a SATA we can use a heap of IDE's for file server)

[Bluepixie]

I'm liking all of these ideas, just trying to work out were to get all this money from is bending my head a bit though. :shock:

So if we get one these big bad ass switches you're talking about sid, and maybe build up a decent server we'll be laughing! Would this Linksys Gigabit Card (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/55508) do the trick for the servers? The Intel (http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/search/?strSearch=&intSubcatUID=1151&bolShowAll=true&intMfrID=63)ones are waaaay expensive. Do we need cards with 2 ports? They're much more expensive too.....

:?

I take it that the game server would be doing all of the DHCP aswell?

[DAve]

I'm liking all of these ideas, just trying to work out were to get all this money from is bending my head a bit though.
Getting the grant from the SRC and claiming back the receipts would boost the club savings by between £50 and £100, as well as that, Chris said we had £200 waiting to go into the bank. This might be enough to get all of the above, depending on what you want, of course :)

There are cheaper gigabit cards: from ebuyer (http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/83820) for example

[Captain_Caveman]

I take it that the game server would be doing all of the DHCP aswell?

Would probably be more sensible to avoid doing anything with the game server bar serving games, use the file server for DHCP and, if we get a net connection some how, firewall.

[Sid]

Do we need cards with 2 ports? They're much more expensive too.....

:?

I take it that the game server would be doing all of the DHCP aswell?

A dual gigabit connection to the switch for the servers would be ideal and wouldn't be *that* much more to impliment as gigabit cards can be found fairly cheaply - Dave's link for example. However, as money is tight, I'm fairly sure that you could just use 2 seperate network cards, buying the second one once more funds are available. Besides, if you're buying this new Mobo/CPU/RAM you're talking about, chances are the motherboard will have built-in dual gigabit ethernet. Mine does.

It would probably be best if the games server was dedicated. DHCP can be done by any old low-spec machine. Surely someone has an old P3 system lying around somewhere?

About the net connection: Whats wrong with the connection that's already in the room? I used it for 10 minutes last LAN to update steam - seems to be fine. Surely we could simply plug it into a router and we're off?

[DAve]

...use the file server for DHCP and, if we get a net connection some how, firewall.
It's got both on it.
DHCP, file server, firewall, ventrillo & teamspeak servers. All running from one small celeron 433. I was quite proud of that box, it got me into the wide world of linux :D

Yes, the file server isn't that fast, but add a gigabit card, it would probably cope. Maybe.

About the net connection: Whats wrong with the connection that's already in the room? I used it for 10 minutes last LAN to update steam - seems to be fine. Surely we could simply plug it into a router and we're off?
It's connected to the JANET backbone, so any unofficial connection could be traced. Also, they monotor the connection and block any attempts to bridge the connection between machines. Janet acceptable use policy and all that jazz.

Could we try and have a word with the admins? I had an email from one of the chaps saying there is a wireless network access point in the John Mac building somewhere, but that was the last I heard. It would be worth a follow up.

[Sid]

It's connected to the JANET backbone, so any unofficial connection could be traced. Also, they monotor the connection and block any attempts to bridge the connection between machines. Janet acceptable use policy and all that jazz.

Could we try and have a word with the admins? I had an email from one of the chaps saying there is a wireless network access point in the John Mac building somewhere, but that was the last I heard. It would be worth a follow up.

Ah, gotcha. Surely all the university net connections are all JANET, though? Wouldn't this wireless connection be the same? Do you think we'd be able to get permission to use it for the LANs?

I'm thinking of buying a 15dbi gain omni-directional wireless antenna (http://www.dlink.co.uk/?go=jN7uAYLx/oIJaWVUDLYZU93ygJVYLelXSNvhLPG3yV3oWYh6kP98f8p8Nqt m6jQ6VHqqnHtB84gJFN7k2qToK0YVtg==) which might come in handy if we're using a wireless link.

[DAve]

Ah, gotcha. Surely all the university net connections are all JANET, though? Wouldn't this wireless connection be the same? Do you think we'd be able to get permission to use it for the LANs?
We did get permission to use it for the lans. It was on a one-computer basis, linked throught VPN to the main uni network. That is, to get hooked up to the network, you would have to have a VPN account through computing services which binds you to the acceptable use policy. As you would with any library computer or using any other wireless point at the uni.

I had a quick search for a WAP in the building, but couldn't find any. I haven't searched for a few months, and my VPN account lapsed last year too. I think Niall and Chris have contacts in the library network, and Jan (I think) knows some people in the computing sciences to ask. I think we have a good case for asking anyway.

[DAve]

more on the bank account problem. They've agreed to give us the £70 quid back for the bounced cheques, as long as we agree not to do it again :D

Problem solved.

[YegaDoyai]

Ok then. What is the grand total we have to spend? When is the meeting to agree what to buy? Who is invited? Will there be coffee and cakes? Can we have another LAN please? Anyone?

[Fyndir]

Can I quickly propose a motion to scrap the server or network upgrades and spend all our money on these? (http://www.latestbuy.com.au/usb_missile_launcher.html)

Please? =D

[YegaDoyai]

SECONDED!

[Captain_Caveman]

The new game, sequel to Rome: Total War.

DESKTOP: Total War

It will be almost as good as the battle with the giant cardboard tubes. :D

[LastChanceHotel]

I am willing to donate an Athlon XP 2400+ and motherboard for a gaming server at GUNS. I have 512MB of RAM kicking about somewhere, and I can swap the 80GB in my test box for a 10GB from my cupboard. And as it's AGP, I'll throw in a 4MB AGP card, also from my cupboard. And a PSU and probably case.

Long story short, you guys have a server.

I propose we spend the money on two 24-port 10/100 switches with 1000 uplinks initially, and a pair of 1000 Ethernet cards for the server. I can then install linux on the server, and use some cool QoS traffic management routines on it, and everything will be both fine and dandy.

Someone buy one of those USB turrets, if only to annoy Strings while surfing!

It will be almost as good as the battle with the giant cardboard tubes. :D

lol, I remember that. I have some pics somewhere too.

About the internet access... does anyone have an old satellite dish they no longer need? I will be using it to connect to the WLAN in the Library from the server, and doing some routing and VPN'ing involving my server in London to get us internet access, with no problems of "what we're doing with it" from the university.

I will also find a good person to contact in the Computing Services dept about using that wall socket. I mean, if we're getting yelled at for what people are doing with it, I can always implement connection and content control. Or just tunnel the traffic to my London server first, where it doesn't matter what you do.

If someone's willing to donate a "real" ATX case I can use for the server, I'd be very grateful (as I'm sure would the cleaning staff). The only ATX case I have was sprayed black once, and is flaking badly. Ah, those were the days.

In terms of where we go from here, once we have two gigabit switches, we'll need to get a third one at some point, some more RAM for the game server, a sat dish or Cantenna (http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html), or hell, a proper directional YAGI antenna if we can spend cash. a 200GB drive for the fileserver (or another 80, then I can RAID them for twice the fun) would be a good buy.

Then, once we're that far, a 10-port(ish) gigabit switch to connect the other switches to would be good. Then money permitting, we can buy a faster games server.

We will need a heatsink/fan for my server though, as it's literally a bare board with the CPU in it.

LastChance

[YegaDoyai]

Jan you can have either the full tower, the midi tower or the mini atx case that I have spare. Is it a socket 'A' cooler? we could get a cheapo quiet cooler for about £15 if it is. I'm sure the budget will stretch to that.