Dawn of War 1.5 Beta Changelog

[Strings]

Yeh Yeh, should be in the strategy thing... but I don't care.

Here be the link.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=90483

Some pretty healthy and interesting discussion that follows it.

Would appear that the Chaos Bezerkers have been nerfed quite dramatically. Having their squad pop doubled from 2 to 4. Seems a bit harsh IMO.

From what I've read in the feedback. It seems that Chaos Space Marines are going to be a pretty decent force at Tier 2.

So I dont mind the changes to much, when you consider the buffs Raptors are getting. You don't need that many zerks now that Raptors and CSM's have received big upgrades. Even Cultists can be a viable Tier 2 unit, if only to provide shock fire for the Raptors and the CSMs.

Lots of other stuff. Lots and lots and lots.

Quite like the IG psyker ability. A tad overpowered.... maybe... but it's a decent ability agains the prisms anyway. Especially as the prism cap has been changed a little.

As for all the other races. Well have a lookum for yourself.

Discuss :)

Edit: Here is a thread or two with better laid out comments.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=1452950&postcount=107
http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=1453339&postcount=151
http://forums.relicnews.com/showpost.php?p=1453655&postcount=188

[Fyndir]

Does that mean no more cerebelum and break their backs? =(

[Bluepixie]

Still seems like they are not helping out the poor Ork players that much. :( Will have to wait and see what they do, as a few people have already voiced their opinion on the relic forum.

Eldar have had some very good changes to them. Increasing the Fire Prism cap is great and making Rangers and Vipers useful is right on.

All the other alterations sound pretty good.

I'm happy that Relic thought they should ask their players before releasing the patch. Good for them. :) and for us.

[Phizz]

Erm..... removing the fire prism cap?!!! What about us poor non-Eldar players? King gets enough prisms as it is!!

[Ru]

They havn't 'dropped' the cap for FP, its increased to 4. Which means now a max of 5, or 7 with an Avatar. This could really balance things.
And yes Fyndir, there will still be Cerebellums and BREAK THEIR BACKSS!¬!! Cool changes on the whole, i like scout's health being cut, and rangers and vipers getting more use, seeing as that was Nialls excuse for Eldar not being broken - " they have useless units". Poppycock! The Psyker Curse sounds pretty cool (byebye Landraiders!). And of course, im happy that raptors and cultists wont be obsolete so fast. Orks DO have a few bonus's, Yega'l be happy the Stormboys got their Stikkbombs back! - I GOT MY HELMET BACK! And rocketboys and been buffed, their Killa Khans more accurate, nah id say their changes are overall advantagous. Ya kno, pretty much everything we have bitched about is being adressed in this patch, lets cross our toes that it works!

[Strings]

Don't know what Pixie is on about. The Prism cap has been increased. Still makes the prisms ridiculously overpowerful... but at least it means that they can't attack multiple locations now.

Hehe from what I can see on the forums. Non-chaos players are worried about the bezerkers being nerfed. They see the newly powered up raptors and CSMs to be a bigger threat.

Edit: Yeh Ru beat me to it while I went to go and make some soup.

[Ru]

You like your soup dont you? im off for a bagel now.
I dunno, i wouldnt say they are ridiculously overpowerful. See, a fire prism vs. chaos predator/leman russ/predator annilator. The FP loses. The advantages they have are jumping, artillary and numbers. They've lost the numbers now. Its quite neat, cos the cap is 4, this means eldar will be at a slight disadvantage until they get their avatar, of which they will then be at a slight advantage. Oppose to, equal footing, and then retarded with an avatar.

[Strings]

True. And with Raptors getting flamers etc. You should be able to hassle Eldar early on enough, so that an avatar later on in the game just isnt feasible.

Edit: To go into greater detail. Just get the raptors to run around the enemies LPs, destroying them. Doesnt take very long with the ACs sword.

Do that while half rushing them... means Eldar can't concentrate so much on getting their economy up.

So come Tier 3, you'd have the advantage of a better requisition spending potential.

[Ru]

Easier said than done my friend. Banshee's kill raptors.

[Bluepixie]

I've edited my post, to "increased cap". I actually ment that they have reduced the amount of Fire Prisms you can have, by increasing the cap. Sorry guys, typo.

Maybe you're right about Orks, it would be great if it actually helps them. Making Tank Busta squads better is a REALLY good thing, as they were near on useless before.

[Strings]

Nah Ru. Ive been watching some replays of said tactic with the current patch. The Raptors just don't engage the banshees. Thats what the CL and CSMs are for if you like. Raptors still manage to harass the players economy by jumping around de-capping LPs.

[YegaDoyai]

for decapping LPs:

IG = Walkers (Fast movement, very effective against buildings and can decap)

Chaos = Raptors + Flamers (Good movement/armour, good against buildings, can capture as well as decap)

Orks = Stormboyz (Good movement, ok against buildings)

Eldar = ??

SM = Assault marines + meltabombs (fast as all other jump troops, good armour, meltas are hugely effective against buildings)

SM + IG are better for harrasing than the others in terms of ecconomy I don't see the changes really altering the balance of eco challenges.

So overall I don't see the raptors as an effective unit in this sense, much like the orks, the jump units are somewhat ineffective (relative to the SM)

[Strings]

If they go ahead with this flamer upgrade research option, how can Raptors not be effective in that sense? Fast and destructive.

[YegaDoyai]

cos flamers are WANK compared to SM melta bombs

[Strings]

Flamers were wank.

To quote the changelog.

"This flame thrower is considerably more powerful than the flame thrower in Dawn of War.

[Ru]

Yeah supposedly these flamers will be better than the ones in Dawn of War. And yega, you forgeting that the Stormboys "ok against buildings"? fuck that, theyre getting stikkbombs again!

[Phizz]

anyway.... I've not heard of any changes to SM units and I can't be arsed reading it. Anyone wanna help me out?

[Sideshow]

Seems like everyone gets subtly nerfed, except Chaos who get awesomely pumped. Kinda annoying...

for decapping LPs:

IG = Walkers (Fast movement, very effective against buildings and can decap)

'Course, you mean Sentinels (Walkers) + Some Form Of Infantry, since Sentinels can't decap shit, being a vehicle and all. Wait, hold on: You mean Sentinels can actually do that? Really? That's retarded.


Thoughts:

Early game made more defensive (general changes to Tier 1 units and decreased turret costs): harder to rush. It's really hard to rush in this game already. Hmmmm. Does make it multiplayer friendly, but I don't think I like it.

SM and Eldar changes look quite similar: Make Land Speeders/Vipers & Scouts/Rangers better. Don't know much about speeders. I'll have to try the Viper's, but I'm not optimistic about them being any good. New sniper scouts look really good - sniper rifles have been pumped quite a lot. it'll be interesting to see what happens when 5 or 6 sniper squads decloak within sniper range of enemy infantry. Rangers get no cost reduction, so are still shit.

Assasult marines get toned down a fair bit, a good thing (IMHO). Whirlwinds get nerfed to hell and back - I've never noticed Whirlwind abuse, but then I don't play online.

Chaos: I mean, holy shit. Chaos are huge here. No point singly out any improvements, they're all ace. Flamers for Raptors are going to give me a headache, I know it. Berskerkers needed the cap increase, I feel. They're still going to be good, just not spammable so much. Hopefully less tech-for-berserkers-Moo! building.
Horrors get a little more versatile, arg. Deepstriking horrors are going to be not fun. 50% more damage to Plasma Generators...
Oh - hadn't seen this on my first read through - Raptor jump costs 2/3 instead of 1/2. Hmmmm. That screws them quite a lot actually. With their weapon upgrades they're now less harrier, more storm trooper. You can jump into a fight, but your gonna have to pick your fights more carefully - no instant retreating. But Raptors were too good before...

Orks: Don't really know - noone plays Orks. They needed Stikk bombs though, so that's good.

Eldar: Only improvements are to Rangers (still far to expensive to consider) and Vipers (still probably too fragile to be useful). Oh, and the listen post's guns get better when it's fully upgraded...
Everything else is a slight nerfing, which kinda sucks. Nothing too drastic. FP cap increase isn't that bad - the first Fire Prism is the important one. Once you get to 7 you've really reached saturation point anyway, so that doesn't bother me so much. Wriathlords brightlance getting toned down is a bit annoying.

IG: Changes look interesting. Grenade Launcher setup time is a Good Thing. Curse of Machine Spirit looks nuts. Apart from that it looks like a bunch of fixes for playing IG to their full broken extent, which noone we play with knows how to do anyway...


EDIT: Why isn't this in the Strategy forum?

[Bluepixie]

anyway.... I've not heard of any changes to SM units and I can't be arsed reading it. Anyone wanna help me out?

What?
Rangers get no cost reduction, so are still shit.

But they do get a reduction in pop cost, which makes them much more useful .

[Sideshow]

But they do get a reduction in pop cost, which makes them much more useful .

Hold on - I can now make more units which are too expensive for how good they are, thus putting myself even further behind my opponent. This is useful how?

[Bluepixie]

Ah yes fair enough. But you'd never make more than one squad of Rangers anyway. And generally after making a full army, I tend to have this 1 pop cap left which is pretty much useless. However, if Rangers are only 1 pop cap would be handy to build them. I know they are not as good as Scouts but it's only fair really that the Eldars scouting units are not as good. Remember, we can make our buildings invisible...... :)

[Fyndir]

I've been playing IG a lot lately, I've found I can really enjoy playing as them. =)

[Ru]

Nice Obliv quote there! Yeah totally, if you wanted a couple of crappy invisible scouting rangers, before that'd set you back 4 point right? but now only one squad. Handy no? In fact, arn't guardian's pop 2? funny ol world eh

[Ru]

Remember, we can make our buildings invisible...... :)
And teleport it. And make webway gates ANYWHERE. Sigh..

[Sideshow]

We played some good games of DoW last night. You didn't, cos you're a cockbite.

[Ru]

yeah, sorry about that. was it 2v2 and one watching? or did you's hit up the Eye of Gorgon?

[Sideshow]

2v2s. I watched two (or three?), and Peter watched one. I think we got one game in before Niall joined in. Overall, really good. I enjoyed observing the games I did, there was a good bit of back-and-forth, and they were closely fought. Also, did some really nice disruption with a falcon grav + fire dragon squad, and totally kicked Niall's arse with reaper's (they're broken, apparently). Oh, and we found out that 1 Sentinel v 6 Hellhounds is a win for the Sentinel :)