Racing forum. I SHALL CONVERT YOU ALL!!!!!!!

[YegaDoyai]

Can I get a racing forum? Then I could spill out all my ideas and everyone would know to ignore them. I could use it like some kind of weird blog that noone reads but gets updated.

If a blog is written, but noone reads it, can you hear it die?

Or something like that anyway.

LFS guide part 1 is nearly ready btw.

[DAve]

Would a general simulations forum be OK, or would you like a specific racing forum?

General sim forum is up, but I can rename as required.

[Fyndir]

I like the idea actually, hints for LFS would be wonderful.

I think I was just about getting the hang of the rally style track we played.

[Bluepixie]

Good stuff. It would be nice to have another car hot on my tail. :)

[YcMing]

Hmm may i ask what is LFS? AS for racing sim, Gt 4 > all :). I reall like that game, it just feels like real racing...

[YegaDoyai]

Live For Speed, the racing game I have been forcing down peoples throat at the lans.

find it at:

http://www.liveforspeed.net/

[Strings]

Oddly enough I resent that comment. Makes it sound as if we don't want to play it :(

[DAve]

Oddly enough I resent that comment. Makes it sound as if we don't want to play it :(
I second that. LFS is a really fun game to play at a lan. It's something that everyone can play (regardless of ability) and on just about every machine.

[Fyndir]

Oddly enough I resent that comment. Makes it sound as if we don't want to play it :(
I second that. LFS is a really fun game to play at a lan. It's something that everyone can play (regardless of ability) and on just about every machine.


Unless you're Fyndir and you manage to suck so badly that you get banned. =P

[YegaDoyai]

K so I have noticed a few things by watching the replays and I think I may be able to provide some general advice that should help all of you.

First of all, the brakes are the right mouse button. Most of you seem to forget this. Especially into the first corner at the start of the race.

Second, your car cannot corner at it's maximum lateral loading AND brake at the same time. One or the other people.

Third, the reason cars in races look like a procession is that there is a racing line. This line denotes the line that will take you round the track maximising the loadings of lateral and longitudinal forces to ensure the best possible laptimes. This means:

When approaching a left hand corner you want to be on the right hand side of the track, as close to the grass as possible (or vice versa).
The transition between going straight to turning for the corner should be gradual. If you think about the forces in action, it is friction that gives your tyres the ability to stick to the tarmac. We all know that if two things are stuck together by friction that a sudden large force acting on it is far more likely to break the friction than a gentle increase in force. So be gentle with your steering input.
When coming out of a corner onto a straight you want to have as little loading on the tyres as possible so let the car drift to the outside as you come out of a corner. In a situation where another corner immediately follows the corner you will have to trade off your initial corner speed with your entry speed and approach to the second and subsequent corners.

The biggest thing to remember is the conservation of momentum. In a situation where your car is sliding you should try not to regain the racing line and think more about how you can maintain as much of the speed that you have now into the next corner.

If your car is not steering into a corner chances are you are either going too fast or you are still braking too hard to start turning. Either way you are going to miss the apex and going to end up slow out of the corner, if you can straight-line the next corner by your newfound line you may be able to save some of the time lost by coming out of this next corner a bit quicker than normal. In a corner that leads onto a straight it is important to note that your exit speed is more important than virtually anything else, so you may wish to alter the normal geometric apex and instead go for a late apex to ensure you are as fast out of the corner as possible, this is especially useful in hairpin corners.

Use your mirrors.

You have played the game enough to know the tracks off by heart (corner by corner if not camber change, bumps, braking points etc). So you should be able to look in the mirror every now and again to get an idea of who and what is around you. You can often witness exciting crashes and battles by looking in the mirror and it will help avoid those issues of whose line is it anyway.

Which brings me to another issue, car awareness. Up until now I have not been involved in any major altercation with anyone on track. This is good but it is clear from the replays that some of you show no respect to your fellows on track. If he was beside you on the last corner and is not in your mirrors now then chances are he is still beside you! Going round the outside on the rally track and complaining you got hit is like walking in front of Pixie in Q3 and complaining he fragged your sorry ass. Note where the overtaking spots are.

Rally:
Braking into the first corner/accelerating out of the first corner.
The inside line off the jump through the 180degree lefthand bend.
Do not try overtaking into or out of the hard-track area, the acceleration and loading mean that it is far to small a difference in speed to make a clean overtake.
The final section of rally track is very bumpy and therefore it is best to just try and get a better exit speed than your opponent and out drag them to the start finish area.

Hard Track
All braking zones.
Exit out of the first chicane onto the long straight (slipstreaming).
The short straight after the corner that ends the long straight but before the right left flick up the hill. (you need to have a VERY significant speed advantage over your opponent plus be able to take the chicane without braking)
The only overtaking spot I consider possible for overtaking a decent opponent on the outside of is the final corner before the start finish line. It is a 3/4th gear corner going left up the hill. If you sit nice and wide and catch the speed just right you can be sitting over their rear quarter by the exit, if they turn into you they will lose the rear end of their car leaving you to move through for the lead.

More on this later

[DAve]

wow - fantastic piece of advice there.

Can you upload the replay(s) to where we can a hold of them please? Perhaps on the wiki? * (or the guns site, if you want to email them to me :)

I would really like to see them, hopefully we can all improve our driving sk1llz for next time. Still haven't got round to posting a lap time for that track.

* could you put a copy of this on the wiki, as well, if you have time? It would be good to have other articles up there too.

Cheers,
DAve

[YegaDoyai]

when I went to bed last night I was pretty sure that I'd spelt straight like strait throughout the article. This was not much of an issue as I intended on revising the entire thing to day. However it seems either I've lost the plot or some little spelling pixie has decided to help me. Is it possible to force all edits to show up?

[Ru]

Hmm, you could just ask him. Its not like he lives far away or anything. Oh and it occured to me, "thing not to say on a first date". FIRST DATE!? does that mean its ok to tell them the truth about your salmon incedent on the second date? or the third? or if the first one goes well, you can slip in your mideed before you bid them goodnight?

[YegaDoyai]

well lets face it if you're the kind of guy that sticks live whole salmon up your ass chances are she is going to find out sooner or later. So yeah, I recon that would be 3rd date material.

[DAve]

However it seems either I've lost the plot or some little spelling pixie has decided to help me. Is it possible to force all edits to show up?
I'm the spelling pixie. I'm not usually known for correcting spellings, but I saw one, then it cascaded from there.

On the subject of edits, I'm sure that I've seen little bars saying "this post has been edited" on the forum, I have no idea how to force them to show.

Sorry if I've overstepped the modding.

[YegaDoyai]

sorry my track guide is taking so long but I have now got S2 so it will take even longer :(

[DAve]

I've been trying out various different lines in LFS, I think I know where to brake now. I'll post when I eventually get around to putting it in a decent form.

I've even been trying it with a racing wheel, but can't quite get as fast as with the mouse.

[Fyndir]

Oh, just as an additional point of reference:

I've been slowly convincing the guys in Microplay that they NEED Live For Speed...

32 man LFS race anyone? =P

[DAve]

32 man LFS race anyone? =P
Sounds sweeeet.

I'm looking forward to a big LFS match next time as well. Can we get an longer race with a pit-stop? 15 laps or so, with a pit in between? It changes the strategy of the race a bit.

[YegaDoyai]

I'd like to get a longer race, so how about a 10min Qualy, (should be enough for 2 runs). Then a 20lap race with 1 compulsory pitstop.

For the rally:
5min qually
15lap race, pit stop not compulsory.


Sessions will last approx 45 - 60min, the reason for the high number of laps for the track race is that I can get 15laps out of the tyres no problem. 20 and above you NEED to pit at some point. However, for a slow steady race you may find that pitting early and getting out of the fighting early on may turn out to be a good stratagy.

[YegaDoyai]

DAve you say you've tried with a wheel, did you mean a wheel AND pedals? It's the pedals that will make the difference. You need to adjust your driving quite abit to get the most out of the cars when using the wheel/pedal setup compared to mouse/kb.

Some pointers (for analog controllers):

Your brake is now progressive, if I EVER see anyone pumping manicly on the brake while trying to slow down I will personally disembowl them. Learn where the biting point is and use it, if the wheels lock up release the brake gently but quickly and then when the wheel is rotating again try and apply more pressure.

Your accelerator is also progressive so you you can keep a balanced throttle in the chicane and through the apex of a corner, use this to your advantage. just rememeber that accelerating will push you wide in a FWD car and make you spin in a RWD car.

Belive it or not you need to be more aggresive with the steering when using a wheel. After playing with the mouse you are probably afraid to move the wheel much and frequently veer off the track in constant radius corners because you are afraid to apply more lock. Don't be afraid, just go for it. Rememeber it is easier to catch a slide with wheel/pedals.

Stop driving the FWD car, RWD is where the fun is at. The Turbo is a BEAST and if you can drive it round the track quickly everything else will seem easy.

Advanced tips:

Left foot braking - The use of both throttle and brake to balance a car in a 4 wheel drift (4WD) through a corner (different to sliding and drifting). A 4WD is an art that is hard to master, essentialy you want a stable, rear wheel drive car with more power than grip (this is a typical single seater). Next you need a 3-4th gear corner that has a nice camber and a big runoff. Assuming you are approaching the corner at a greater speed than you can get through at. Lift off the accelerator and apply the brake as normal. Aim to hit deep behind the apex of the corner (maybe 2-3 feet behind the apex), as you begin to turn in and begin to release the brake, use the throttle to push the nose of the car at the apex, as you hit the apex fully release the brake and the front end will move deeper into the apex, so remember to slaken the steering as you release the brake. Accelerate HARD out of the corner. This is esspecially useful in cars with little or no downforce or in corners where you are at the low end of 100mph.

If the back end slips round on you press the brake but do NOT release the throttle. Sometimes the frontend will come back and you can continue.

[DAve]

woot! I just broke the 1.40 barrier for XFG on Blackwood (1.39.50, I think)

Some tips for newbies (basially, everyone apart from Peter)

0) SMOOTHNESS is the key. Try and brake earlier and carry the speed through the corners. If you are continually sliding, you are losing time.
1) Switch the "Braking Help" button to "on".
1a) Turn the mouse sensitivity down, and if needed, lower the steering lock on the car setup.
2) Your mouse buttons are digital. Your throttle and brakes are analogue. Lower the sensitivity for the botton presses and learn to alter your braking force so that your tyres aren't constantly squealing
3) Have a few laps of the Blackwood before the LAN, learn your braking points.
3a) Watch some replays of good drivers (http://www.lfsworld.net/).
4) For the love of Pete, brake before you hit the corner
5) Or for that matter, the back of someone elses's car.

There are track guides available, for example, here:
http://www.nemanja.com/?p=13

I'll try and compile a corner by corner guide myself.
[edit] Corner by corner guide for the forward track XFG, blackwood.
http://guns.snakebomb.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=3349&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

Short summary of braking points:
Corner 1: 100m
Corner 4 (after straight): 125(ish)m
Corner 5: brake a touch to get down to 60mph
Corner 7: 70m
Corner 8: brake a touch to get down to 60mph.

Anything else, Peter?

[DAve]

I think I've managed to get my steering wheel up to an acceptable standard. i.e. it's at a point where brakes work like brakes, and not like dirty great anchors. Ditto, steering

Maybe this might help any of you that are considering getting wheels.

The "steer centre reduction" was helpful in getting the wheel to be a bit more relaxed in the centre. My wheel has a noticable dead-zone +- 10 degrees about the centre, so reducing the sensitivity around the center (setting ~0.75) gives a nice smooth curve for fine control instead of juddering off the track.

DXTweak2 - I've set up the brakes in a similar way - previously I was getting a very non-linear brake curve with all the braking concentrated in the last 10% of the brake travel. Thanks to DXTweak2, I've managed to smooth this curve to roughly linear. Braking half-way down the brake gives half-brake strength :)

sources:
LFS wiki - http://www.lfswiki.net/index.php/LFS_S2_Manual:Options
DXTweak2 - http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm#DX%20Tweak%202

[YegaDoyai]

Having completed my first 'season' of racing a 20lap race is just too much for the mouse. 10laps is an endurance event when it comes to mouseing so we'l stick with that as the max, for now.